Dina | Combatting Sexual Violence

ChildfreeReligion

Mar 3

Written By Population Balance

After surviving sexual violence at age 13 in Indonesia and receiving little support from authorities, Dina Chaerani dedicated her life to advocating for survivors and promoting comprehensive sexuality education. Now living childfree with her partner in the Netherlands, she still faces intense family and social pressure in Indonesia to conform to traditional expectations of marriage and motherhood. Despite these pronatalist pressures, Dina continues to work tirelessly for youth-led sexual and reproductive health and rights.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Dina Chaerani (00:00):
Of course, as an Indonesian, as a Muslim girl, people just saying, "Don't forget, get married before 30. Have babies." Because I'm almost 30, I'm put in the bracket of expired women because all my friends from the junior high school, every single of them has been married and have kids. It's only me that's still here. Many people lableing me that I'm a Haram girl. Haram, it's like the person that always doing all the bad things, not following what God's telling.
Nandita Bajaj (00:40):
That was today's guest, Dina. Hi everyone, and thank you for joining me. My name is Nandita Bajaj and I'm the host of Beyond Pronatalism: Finding Fulfillment With or Without Kids, an interview series in which through intimate conversations with women and men from diverse backgrounds, I explore how they are courageously and creatively navigating pronatalism - the often unspoken pressures to have children, whether from family, friends, or the culture at large. In each episode, I dive into personal stories with people who are forging unconventional pathways to fulfillment, including redefining what family means to them, whether that means being childfree or childless, having biological kids, adopting or fostering children or animals, or creating close-knit communities of friends and loved ones. Hi, Dina. Welcome to Beyond Pronatalism.
Dina Chaerani (01:35):
Hi, Nandita. Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me today.
Nandita Bajaj (01:40):
It's my absolute pleasure, Dina, to see you again. For the sake of our listeners, of course, you and I met in November in Bogota, Columbia at the International Conference on Family Planning. You were doing a lot of live stage interviews there, and I had the pleasure of being interviewed by you, and you were such a great host. And I loved hearing about your story so much that I wanted to be able to turn the tables and let you share your story.
Dina Chaerani (02:14):
Thank you so much, Nandita. It was my first time actually learn about that work, pronatalism itself at the ICFP when I was meeting you and then like, "Oh yes, definitely. I would love to interview you. " As a background for the listeners, I was hosting Sex O'clock News. Literally, it's a live stage prime time that we talk about pleasure, sexuality, about sexual reproductive health and rights, but in the most youth-friendly way. So I really love that our paths crossed.
Nandita Bajaj (02:43):
I have loved meeting you. And for our listeners, can you give a brief introduction, anything you want to say about yourself? Of course.
Dina Chaerani (02:53):
My name is Dina Chaerani. I was born in Indonesia. At the moment, I live in the Netherlands. I also create my own social media branding. It's called SRHR Barbie. So as SRHR stands for Sexual Reproductive Health and Rights. And why I chose Barbie, because I'm trying to destigmatize and then break the glass ceiling when people think she cannot talk about something serious. It's only about beauty. It's not that. I can talk about politic. I can talk about budget, finance. I can talk about anything and then I can make it fun as well. But also I've been focusing on these issues of sexual reproductive health and rights since I was 13 years old. I am now 29, so it has been 16 years and fighting for the issues around gender equality and then prevention of sexual violence against children and girls. And I'm also working in the NGO that also focusing on the meaningful and inclusive youth participation.
Nandita Bajaj (03:56):
Wonderful. This is such an interesting background, especially about how early you got started in your advocacy at 13. Can you share some of what inspired you to get active in this kind of work at that young age?
Dina Chaerani (04:14):
So I'm a sexual violence survivor. I experienced and witnessed directly the sexual violence against children, I mean, women and girls. And I experienced directly how hard it was to be believed by the system or even to get justice because I reported to the teacher and then the teacher refused to believe that because when he asked who did that, I said I didn't remember. And he said, "Oh, then you enjoy the incident." Then I tried to report it to the police. However, in Indonesia, the system is super broken and then also corrupted where if you are 15, you have to report to seven different institution until you can bring that to the judicial process. And even for my case, after I did that, they decided that, oh, you didn't get raped. And beyond that, of course, as an Indonesian, as a Muslim girl, people just saying, "Oh yeah, at the end of the day, women or girls, they're supposed to be staying at home." And I was quite active as well.
(05:12):
And I witnessed every day where the teachers sidelined us like, "Yeah, you cannot be the leader. Let the men do that." And a lot of other opportunities that actually wasn't created for us or even designed together with us, that's the reason why I literally swore when I was 13, I said, "I'm never going to stop working on this issue until there is no longer Ministry of Women Empowerment and Child Protection in Indonesia because this is exactly the reason why they have that, because our women are not empowered. Our children are not protected." So that's kind of the pathway up until now.
Nandita Bajaj (05:48):
Yeah. Wow. And though the system clearly failed you and the teachers didn't hear you, what was the support system like from your own family?
Dina Chaerani (06:00):
Honestly, I wasn't really telling my parents when I experienced that. The reason why, it's because definitely they will also blame me, because the victim blaming is happening. And then I was so afraid and terrified to actually talk about this to them because at the end they will also ask the same questions. Did it happen? What kind of clothes did you wear? Something like that. And I sort of tried to navigate those things alone, literally alone and then just using Google. I mean, back then when I was 13, I still need to go to the internet cafe, but trying to do that. And then until I actually graduate from junior high school, and then I went to senior high school, that was where the first time I met an NGO called Plan International Indonesia. They were my biggest support system and helping me in a long way.
(06:49):
And they thought that, "Hey, that's actually child rights." I was like, "What is child rights?" And then they're like "there are 32 child rights. You didn't know that? "And then that's why, oh, oh my God, that's like my rights as a child to be protected by the government, by the parents, by the teacher, but everybody failed me at this moment. And they helped me along the way to report to the seven different institutions. So they were one of the biggest support system and they shaped me and actually also giving me a lot of education and training, taking me to the international conference on child rights so that I can actually be empowered and I can also create ripple effect for the children or young people. So it was amazing. And I saw like, oh, this is exactly the meaning of opening up and empowering other people rather than only focusing on yourself.
Nandita Bajaj (07:38):
That is such an inspiring story, Dina. I obviously didn't know any of the details. And the fact that you've been going strong for 16 years and counting, that is really wonderful. And along those lines, I wonder what kind of messages you were receiving growing up within your family and within the larger culture, especially around the ideas of children and marriage.
Dina Chaerani (08:07):
Yeah, I mean, I was born in a quite conservative family. My mom was a Catholic and then she converted to be a Muslim and then my father was a Muslim, but my father already passed away. But when he was still here, he wasn't really forcing me. It was more my mom until now even. Don't forget, get married before 30, have babies. Because I'm almost 30 she keeps also asking when am I going to get married, when I'm going to have babies because I'm almost put in that bracket of expired women because all my friends from the junior high school, every single of them has been married and had kids. It's only me that's still here. Since I was a kid, many people leveling me that I'm a Haram girl in Muslim, it's like a halal and haram. Haram, it's like the person that always doing all the bad things, not following what God's telling.
(08:56):
I'm not obeying something because I'm really outspoken. I question a lot. I'm trying to challenge the narrative on Quran and Hadith, for example, I demand clarity, but for them, why you question this, it's supposed to be with your deeds and then it's supposed to be with your faith. Sometimes we cannot just explain everything. I said, no, it's wrong. Literally in Quran, it says that once you stop questioning something the essential of being a human is gone. It's stopped. So you are no longer human if you stop questioning something. And I feel like, why this is so different between the religious leaders in my community and the Quran itself? Yeah, so I have really bad reputation. I grew up. They called me like, "Oh, you're going to go to hell." Even now I receive a lot of DM on Instagram, haram girl. You're going to burn in hell.
(09:41):
Now I'm more looking at that as a joke. And then when they said, "You're going to go to hell." And I said, "Yes, see you there." I'm trying to make it into jokes so that make them really, really angry. And it has been there since when I was like 18, when I decided to work as an NGO worker, because in Indonesia, if you are not a doctor, a lawyer, especially from my mom's tribe, they think that I have set myself to be a failure for the family.
Nandita Bajaj (10:09):
Wow. So did the pressure stop? You said you're still getting them from your mom about marriage and children?
Dina Chaerani (10:18):
Never stops. I don't think it will ever stop until we actually fulfill the expectation of the society, but I think I am a bit lucky because I'm far away from her. I am in a very good relationship with my partner. It has been four years. And I don't really want to have kids because, oh my God, with all of things that happening in the world, the cruelty and then how actually people treat the kids and I still want to do so many other things. If my mom listens to this podcast, she would probably she would be like, "You need to get exorcism." Because she thought that the demon is inside me. Every day, literally Nandita, she will be like, "Oh my God, don't forget to pray because in Islam, we have to pray five times a day." She will be like, "Pray, because if you do not pray, literally your father is crying in the graveyard."
(11:05):
You will send him to hell because all your bad deeds." So those things has been infiltrated to my mind. So sometimes even if I don't believe that, but since I was a kid, I grew up with those kind of beliefs and failures from my own family. So when I really hit the lowest point of my life, I'd be like, "Oh yeah, am I really doing the good thing?" Second guessing. Sometimes, especially you are far away during winter and then you are alone at home. Is my mom actually proud of me? Because she never say I love you. She never said that I'm proud of you. So for me, seeking validation from my mom is really also an issue, complicated.
Nandita Bajaj (11:48):
Definitely. When did you realize that you didn't want to have kids? Was it common in Indonesia for you to find people who didn't have kids?
Dina Chaerani (11:59):
Well, if you have the privilege to actually go to the university, there are so many woke people, so many activists as well. Or if you are sort of in the posh area, like South Jakarta where there are a lot of expats, they're exposed to this kind of privilege to be like, "You can choose whether you want to have kids or not." It's not because you cannot. It's like whether you want to or not, and you are able or not to actually take care of your babies. But then for example, in the area where my mom lives in East Jakarta, it's a bit closer to the suburbs, this is no brainer. You don't question this. That's like your pathway, especially if you're women, you kind of get married, have babies, multiply. So I was like, "That's insane." Because whenever I go back to Indonesia once a year, I always visit my mom and then sometimes meeting my friends.
(12:44):
"When are you going to get kids, Dina? "I said," Why? "Because your partner is ... " We call it bule. Bule, it means foreigner for white people and my partner is Dutch, stereotypically white, blue eyes. And who says that I want to get married, number one. Number two, who says that I'm going to have babies? No, you have to because if you have these babies, you can bring it to Indonesia and then ensure that your baby going to be a celebrity of Instagram, Celebgram, and then you can earn money from that. It's actually a trend, Nandita. It's a trend. So many women literally just going to have sex with random bule or random foreigners so that they can get the sperm and then have a baby. Even if the father is running away back to their home country, they can use the baby becoming the celebrity of Instagram or on TikTok where they can earn money getting endorsement.
Nandita Bajaj (13:35):
Talk about violation of children's rights from before they were even born. The fact that you're bringing a child so that they can be a source of income through social media that is a different level. I had not heard of that, Dina.
Dina Chaerani (13:51):
Mind blowing.
Nandita Bajaj (13:52):
Yeah, mind blowing. Totally. And so how about your partner? Is he also on the same wavelength about not wanting kids?
Dina Chaerani (14:02):
So I mean, he's Dutch, he grew up in the Netherlands. It's easy to have a discussion like this. Even when they were kids, they already got the sex education. And he's the only kid in the family. And whenever I have a discussion with him, I bring it like a joke in the beginning, "I don't think I want to have babies." And then he's like, "Yeah, sure, babe. Literally, that's your body. It's your choice. I don't have anything to say about that because if you don't want, who am I to judge or say?" And I asked, "Do you really want to have kids or not?" "At the moment, actually, no. Even if you said that you want, okay, we can discuss about it. And if you said you don't want, I'm also pro on it because we can actually spend time together traveling." That's what he said.
(14:41):
There are too many kids that really abandon or their rights are not fulfilled. Yeah, that's too much. And then it's just responsibility you cannot undo. There is no turning back after you have kids, starting from you get pregnant, changing of the body, the hormone. And then he said, "No, totally. If you don't want, I'm pro about it." And he's a feminist, and I really love it. Of course, I cannot say it directly to my mom at the moment. I still think the way to say it to her because it has to be in her own way of saying that. Luckily, I mean from the family of my partner, they literally like, "Take your time. Don't be in the rush, be happy." It's so different, the goals in life.
Nandita Bajaj (15:26):
Yes. And tell me more about your work in advocacy. It's so related to the subject we're talking about today is empowering sexual and reproductive health and rights.
Dina Chaerani (15:39):
So remember when I said that I got sexual violence when I was 13, and then I got a lot of empowerment from Plan International. So in the past four years, I created the first gig. It's called Lapor Yuk. So Lapor Yuk is based in Indonesia, it means 'let's just report.' So that's an online digital initiative for sexual violence reporting mechanism. I create that with my team. You can download it on App Store and Google Play Store because the reason why there are so many victims do not want to show up like I did. It was because the judgment, the victim blaming. It's tiring and you have to repeat the story for seven times over and over again. If you don't have money, you don't have lawyer well you can just capture and report directly, take the geolocation. So after that, it will connect to seven different institution and then you can choose to which institution do you want to report this case.
(16:34):
It was like a whole three years we created that until it is adopted by one of the regency in Indonesia. It's called Bogor Regency, and they use that tool and adopt it as a reporting mechanism. And every year, whenever we need to report to Indonesia and Indonesia need to report to United Nations about the case, it's always referred to that data.
Nandita Bajaj (16:55):
That's amazing.
Dina Chaerani (16:57):
It has been downloaded more than 10,000 times. And then after that, I was thinking, oh, we cannot just only rely on that. Especially now with the growing of social media, so many young people in Indonesia do not get an adequate comprehensive sexuality education. And I was like, the data is there actually from UNESCO, from UNFPA, though it's in English, everything is in English again. It's colonial. So we tried to decolonize that. I said, okay, if not a lot of people are able to read or access that, might as well let me do it. So I read the holy grail of the International Technical Guidance on Sexuality Education, 185 pages, and I created an online social media initiative called Sexdugram. It's an abbreviation from comprehensive sexuality education on Instagram. And we got the first grant from UNESCO. We were the winner of this prize for comprehensive sexuality education online.
(17:59):
So we translated into reels, into memes, into comics in Bahasa Indonesia, using the most plain language as possible so that they can understand why young people needs to understand sexuality education. It's not only about teaching you on how to have sex, because probably you already know. It's not only about penetration, it's literally about boundaries, about knowing your rights, because what's really successful for the far right wing, it's because they use the easy language, I feel. That's why I'm trying so much inviting so many religious people to have a discussion with me, because I feel like those are the untouchable community, the faith-based community, especially for SRHR. So I feel like let's go there because if nobody's actually educate them or have a conversation with them, then it's nothing. We only target the same people again and again. And then my full-time work is I'm working with the Yield Hub.
(18:55):
It's a youth focus, a global initiative on meaningful and inclusive youth participations. So for example, if you said that you really want to do meaningful youth participation, let's check, do you have youth advisory panel? Do you compensate youth work? Something like that, challenging the organizational change. So I'm working as a partnership and a community officer there. Also, in the meantime, I'm doing and running the social media for my own self where I have the SRHR Barbie team and creating some social media kits sometime to make it fun. That's what I'm doing most of the time.
Nandita Bajaj (19:30):
Dina, you've been doing so many things. It's incredible. And it's amazing that you're taking all of this complex information, high level information and making it accessible to youth in a way that's helpful for them. And you're right, that's such a huge majority of people who are affiliated with some kind of religion. So it's a great strategy to go into that umbrella of work. Truly inspiring. I'm so glad that we met in Columbia and I'm really grateful that you shared your story with all of us today. Thank you so much.
Dina Chaerani (20:05):
Thank you so much, Nandita. It's my pleasure. And I hope people can also get something from this conversation.
Nandita Bajaj (20:12):
They definitely will. That's all for today's episode. Thank you so much for listening. Do you have your own story you'd like to share? Check out the show notes to see how you can get in touch with me. Whether you'd like to share feedback about the show or a particular episode or whether you'd like to join me on the show to share your own story, I'd love to hear from you. Thank you so much again for joining me today as we collectively discover and celebrate the many different pathways to fulfillment beyond pronatalism. Beyond Pronatalism is brought to you by Population Balance, the only nonprofit organization advancing ecological and reproductive justice by confronting pronatalism. This podcast is produced and hosted by me, Nandita Bajaj, with the support of my production team, Josh Wild and Alan Ware.