Lisa | A Childfree Comedian Walks into a Bar

ChildfreeAnimal Rights

Mar 17

Written By Population Balance

Growing up on military bases in a traditional family with traditional expectations, comedian and author Lisa Rimmert always assumed she would have children. But the desire to become a mother never came. After weighing the choice with her husband, they realized that simply “not wanting children” was reason enough, and they found great clarity and freedom in the decision. Now in her early 40s, childfree, vegan, and living with their beloved rescue dog and cat, Lisa is able to pour her energy and love of humor into her work as a stand-up comedian.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Lisa Rimmert (00:00):
It's basically like I wanted to want to have kids so that I could fit in and be like everyone else. And I had to admit it's not genuine. And I just felt like, where are the people that just don't want them? And can't that be enough? I don't have bad genetics. I didn't have a terrible upbringing that I don't want to inflict on another kid. It's nothing like that. I just don't want them. I just don't want my life to be based around someone else who needs me all the time. And isn't that okay? Can I just say that? And why is that wrong?
Nandita Bajaj (00:43):
That was today's guest, Lisa. Hi everyone, and thank you for joining me. My name is Nandita Bajaj and I'm the host of Beyond Pronatalism: Finding Fulfillment With Or Without Kids, an interview series in which through intimate conversations with people from diverse backgrounds I explore how they are courageously and creatively navigating pronatalism - the often unspoken pressures to have children, whether from family, friends, or the culture at large. Each episode features a personal story, born out of liberated and informed choice, about redefining what family means, including being childfree or childless, having biological kids, adopting or fostering children or animals, or creating close-knit communities of friends and loved ones. Hi, Lisa, and welcome to Beyond Pronatalism. I'm really excited to have you today.
Lisa Rimmert (01:38):
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Nandita Bajaj (01:40):
And it's been great to get to know your journey a little bit through the little text that you wrote about yourself, but I'd love to learn more about you. If you can start by giving all of us a brief introduction.
Lisa Rimmert (01:57):
Sure. Lisa, 101. I am 42. I currently live in the state, Georgia, which is a strange thing for me to say because I don't identify with where I live necessarily, but I've been an army dependent and air force dependent my whole life. So my dad grew up air force and I married a guy in the military as well, so I am constantly moving. I've lived mostly in the US, but I did live in Greece when I was too young to appreciate it. And I lived in Germany during elementary years. And in the US, I've lived in Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, Illinois, California, DC, the Seattle area. And now I'm on the border of Georgia and Alabama. I have been married for almost 21 years and I have a dog and a cat who I live with, both rescues. And I'm a comedian and an author.
Nandita Bajaj (02:57):
Awesome. So what was it like growing up in all these different places and what kind of messages were you receiving in terms of your life goals as an adult, both within the family, which I guess is the one thing that stayed constant, and then across the diversity of places that you've lived?
Lisa Rimmert (03:18):
Yeah. I'm very grateful to have lived a lot of different places and seen just how different people live. But I do feel like it was pretty traditional. The way that you live life was never something I had many questions about because I didn't realize there were many different ways. It was just like you go to school, you get good grades, you go to college, you get a job, you get married, you have kids, the end.
(03:48):
That was always a path that I assumed would happen. And I never really knew that any of those things could be an individual choice. So I grew up with two parents who were always married and still are married. They had two kids. They literally, I think, have a white picket fence at their house, a very much traditional American family. So I did the school, I got the good grades, I did college, I got married two months after graduating college, which from my perspective now is far too young. And I'm bewildered that it worked out. I still love and like my husband somehow, having gotten married before our brains were formed. So I did everything up to marriage and then I didn't do the kids thing. I thought I would do the kids thing. I assumed I would. Again, I didn't really realize it was a choice I could make.
(04:45):
I guess if you had asked me back then, I would've said, "Oh, sure it's a choice, but I'm going to choose it." And so how much of a choice is it when you're surrounded by everybody only doing one thing? I never had the feeling that I wanted kids, but I always assumed it would come later. So as I progressed through my 20s, it never came. And then I think around 30 was the time my husband decided to become a doctor and that required some advanced planning in terms of where's med school, will you do a fellowship? What will that look like? Where will we be as a couple and financially? And we were mapping out what might this look like. And part of the conversation was, when do we have a kid? And I realized I was really trying to fit a square peg into a round hole because the whole discussion was, well, how do we have a child without me feeling resentful because my husband's career would be kind of guiding the way that we lived and be the stable one, the one that gets the healthcare for us and all that stuff.
(06:00):
So everything's kind of dependent on that. And I kept making arguments about how to have a kid when I realized I don't have the underlying desire that should be fueling this conversation. I felt like, why am I arguing for some future child and how I relate to them and how we work as a family when I didn't even start with, "I want one." And so that started a bunch of conversations between us about, "Okay, do we have one? Do we have to? How is this going to change when that's what we envisioned the whole time?" Or at least that's what we had assumed would happen. So that's kind of when I realized, oh, this is a choice and it's going to change your entire life, at least as a woman. Still, it changes your entire life and do I want that?
Nandita Bajaj (06:53):
And were you mainly having these conversations with your husband or was something else informing your thinking? Was there anything you were reading, watching, or other people you were seeing in your life who were making that choice kind of more obvious for you?
Lisa Rimmert (07:12):
You know, that's a good question. And it was mainly just me and my husband having these conversations. And I would definitely Google '"choice to have kids" or things like, my husband makes fun of me for being too logical and I want to look at the pros and cons and I want to see, okay, people that are doing it, what does their life look like? And do they regret it? So I remember I would Google like, "Are there moms who regret having kids?" And I think more so than having childfree role models, what I had was models of what it looked like to be a mother. And I didn't really see that for myself. I mean, I think it depends on what your values are and what your goals in life are, but for mine and my own life, I thought, "This doesn't seem like it suits me very well."
(08:02):
I do remember reading, there was a book called Selfish, Shallow and Self-Absorbed. It was something like 10 to 15 essays from different people about their decision not to have kids. I thought it would make me feel less alone and it ended up annoying me because I didn't see myself in that book at all. All these different people saying why they didn't have kids, but they all had a good justification and I just felt like, where are the people that just don't want them and can't that be enough? I don't have bad genetics. I didn't have a terrible upbringing that I don't want to inflict on another kid. It's nothing like that. I just don't want them. I just don't want my life to be based around someone else who needs me all the time. And isn't that okay? Can I just say that? And why is that wrong?
Nandita Bajaj (08:53):
Well, I think that's such a powerful statement. And a huge part of our pronatalist society that people who choose to not have kids are the ones who end up having to justify why we didn't do it.
Lisa Rimmert (09:04):
Yeah. I find that with anything that goes against the grain, right? I'm at a point in my life where I'm not really interested in advocating in that way where it's me talking to someone who's never thought about it before. So I'm a little bit like, "Ugh, why do we have to have this conversation?" And somebody asked me why I'm vegan and I had the same thought about that as I do about the kids' question, which is, why am I the one that has to explain? Why aren't you vegan? How about that? Because if anyone's given this stuff thought, it's going to be the people that are doing something different than the norm, right? We've given it more thought than anybody else I can guarantee you. So it's interesting that we're the ones being questioned.
Nandita Bajaj (09:46):
Totally. And on the question of logic, I think this is a decision that requires a lot of logical reasoning. Thinking about the pros and cons and having a list and rationalizing your decision, I feel like makes a ton of sense because it is one of the most consequential decisions you make in your life, right? But also not needing to do a whole pro and con list if you simply know that this is not for you. And that's, like you said, reason enough. And the only other quick comment I wanted to make, I'm so intrigued that for you, it was the presence of people who had followed the parenthood path that told you that that's not what you wanted to do.
Lisa Rimmert (10:30):
Yeah. I come from a long line of people who have had kids, everyone actually. And most of my family and most of my friends have kids. And I do remember, I have a friend I won't name who had kids and I thought of her as pretty similar to me. So I was really watching, how's she going to approach this? And I saw so many people, it just seems to take over your identity when you have kids. And some people want that. I didn't want that. So I really watched my friend and I kind of looked at her like, Okay, is she going to be a role model for how to have kids without losing who you are or who you were? And can you still have fun hobbies that are just for you? Can you still have music on your playlist that's not Disney songs?
(11:25):
Can you have a Facebook profile picture that's you and not your baby? Is it possible? And she did do it, but by the time she was a good role model, I had already decided. It's basically like I wanted to want to have kids so that I could fit in and be like everyone else. And I had to admit it's not genuine.
Nandita Bajaj (11:45):
Yeah. So well said. And when you were having that discussion with your husband, were you both on the same page?
Lisa Rimmert (11:53):
No. And I'll be careful here because he's a private person, but we got married young. He's in the army and that's very typical. A lot of people get married when they're 18, 19, and then just start having kids. We did the getting married young thing, but we didn't do the kids young thing. We thought, oh, okay, maybe when we're like 27, 28, then I thought I will want that at that age because some magical hormones will kick in or something because everybody else seems to be doing it. So you must want it at some point. And he also thought same thing, college, marriage, family, et cetera. And so we both sort of assumed it and didn't think much of the choice in the matter. And I was the one who was like, Okay, I don't think this is for me. I don't know that I want this.
(12:43):
When we were looking at what will our lives look like, we are fairly traditional in terms of like some of the gender roles that we have, at least on paper. Like he's the one that makes more money, he's in the military, so he has a stable job. He's got the health insurance. I worked in nonprofits for a long time, which is not the most wealthy career option. And then I was a freelancer, comedian writer. So it was clear if anybody was going to be taking the lead in childcare, it was going to be me. When he was thinking about medical school, we would talk about, Okay, well, you're going to be a doctor. We could afford childcare. So that's great. But I still knew, let's say that childcare is sick, let's say the school calls, let's say the spring break, whatever, everything is going to fall to me because I'm the one with the more flexible schedule.
(13:34):
So that just didn't sound good to me. A lot of the unfairness I think is inherent. It's biological, but a lot of it is social and I don't like either one. And it's funny because thinking about these things that were in the future, I would feel resentful already toward him. And I didn't like the feeling that I had already, without even doing it, without even taking any steps toward it. And I love my husband very much and I want to continue loving him very much. I don't want to be mad at him for not helping out or for calling it babysitting or all the other things that you hear about.
Nandita Bajaj (14:14):
I know you don't want to speak on his behalf, but did it cause any kind of tension that you had to resolve over time or did the decision come fairly easy once it was made?
Lisa Rimmert (14:24):
In between, yeah, we had a lot of discussions about it and what would it look like, but ultimately it's like we both have to turn the wheel, you both have to turn your keys in order to unlock the thing. You know what I'm talking about. Both people have to want it, especially in my opinion, if it's the person that's going to take the brunt of the changes and the labor, I mean that in both senses of the word, that person especially has to be fully on board. It's kind of like when I used to work at animal shelters and we would make sure that everybody in the family was knowledgeable that someone was going to be adopting a dog or a cat because even if it's like, Oh, well, my teenager really wants a dog and she said she's going to fully take care of him. No, it's a family effort.
(15:09):
Everyone's going to be participating. Everyone's lives are going to be changed. Everyone needs to be on board. So the ultimate decision was like, Well, if both of us aren't on board, if either one of us is not on board, we're not doing it. And also we don't want to do it in that case. Nobody wants to pressure their spouse into doing anything that they don't want to do. So now we're very, very proud caretakers of a dog and a cat.
Nandita Bajaj (15:34):
Amazing. Well, that's such a nice outcome of what seems like a very thoughtful decision-making process, going back and forth and really thinking things through. What was the response like from your families, both sets, and friends?
Lisa Rimmert (15:50):
Friends are so cool about it. My parents are pretty okay. I did have to ask my mom at one point. She would make jokes. She wants whatever I want for my life, but I think if she could wave a magic wand, she would make it so that I want a child. And I did have to ask her at one point to stop making jokes about it because she would make little half-true, half-joking comments because she's affected as well. All of her peers her age, my aunts and uncles, her friends, they're all grandparents now and enjoying that grandparent life. And I'm sure that's what she envisioned for her life. So I'm aware that my decision affects not just me, but other people, but again, I didn't want it, so I can't really control that. I was relying on my brother for a while, and then he decided that they weren't going to have kids either.
(16:41):
And I thought, Come on, man. You got to do me this solid. And I was also like, Maybe I'll look at him and see how he does it and see if I like how he does it. And then maybe it would seem more plausible for me to do it. So both sets of parents, mine and my husbands won't have grandkids, I don't think. So we kind of ruined some dreams. So it's a little bit like, Oh, I'm sorry, but not sorry, but sorry, but I don't know.
Nandita Bajaj (17:10):
Right. So it's a first for the whole family.
Lisa Rimmert (17:16):
Yeah. We're shutting down this line of succession, over.
Nandita Bajaj (17:20):
Yes. Yes.
Lisa Rimmert (17:22):
Which is actually, this is interesting because one of the things last year we did was work on wills. And boy, is that complicated when you aren't going to have kids and your brother doesn't have kids and isn't going to, you're like, who do I leave all my stuff to? I don't know that I'll care because I'll be gone. But with having a book published, I self-published a book, so it's my book, it belongs to my LLC. And does the book just stop being printed or does it live on past you or what? My book is about a dog that I lived with and I would love for her to have a legacy. And so it's like, who will keep these things going and does it matter? And I'd like it to go to someone I like or feel close to or something. And then you're looking at, okay, so it's not going to be my kids.
(18:11):
It's not going to be my siblings' kids because none of those people exist. So then you're like, Friends, kids? There's not really a clear answer. And so it's kind of a, Whoa, okay. This is getting real.
Nandita Bajaj (18:24):
It's funny because we went through the same process in the last six months and we were clear that a lot of it would go towards causes we care about. For us, it's the animals, looking at different organizations that are supporting animals. And it's like, well, that's our kin.
Lisa Rimmert (18:41):
Oh, I like that. Yeah, that's a great point.
Nandita Bajaj (18:44):
So I'd love to hear after it was clear to you that this is who you are, you're a childfree couple and you have companion animals. What has your life path since then looked like? What has that allowed you to do in terms of your pursuits?
Lisa Rimmert (19:02):
Yeah. I think for me, and it's difficult to say how much of this is directly caused by not having kids, but certainly having time and money is caused by not having kids. I feel like both of us are able to spend our time and money on things we love. So it's funny, I didn't want to be a mom because I didn't want my whole life to be about someone else. I wanted to do what I enjoyed. And I kind of ended up living a bit for someone else anyway, which is my dog who's very fearful and requires a little extra TLC. But I love animals. It started from a love. It started from all growing up. I wanted my own dog. I wanted to rescue a dog. So it started with the want. And so I don't have any resentment or anything about the time that it takes up now because it was a real choice.
(19:52):
So we spend a lot of time with our dog and our cat. He's very easygoing and easy to take care of. So he gets a little less attention when I talk about my animals, but spend a lot of time and money on our animals and we don't have to save money for anyone's college. So we can spend the money on ourselves and be a little bit less forward thinking, I think, than if we had kids. So we travel, we go on trips where we get to do whatever we want to do and we don't have to go to amusement parks. We get to have grown-up trips and we get to go hiking. And if we want to do something spur of the moment, it's a lot easier for us to do. With being in the military, we move across the country all the freaking time it feels like.
(20:39):
And that feels really complicated without kids, but it's probably a hundred times more complicated when you have kids and you have to consider school districts and their friends and their continuity of learning and care and how they feel about moving and all those things. So I just feel like it's made life easier. And then for me personally, it's been, I guess, kind of a weight off my shoulders a little bit because pre-decision, I kept thinking, well, maybe, I don't know, I still have to do this research and I have to consider and I have to think about my feelings and figure this out. It needs a solution. It's a problem that's weighing on me. And then after I decided, You know what? You just don't want kids and that's okay. It was kind of like, okay, now I just get to live.
Nandita Bajaj (21:25):
Yeah. Even as you're talking about it, I can feel the release of energy and time and resources. There's a liberation that comes from making the decision, whichever way you go, because you're committing to something that you've thought about, it feels a lot more freeing.
Lisa Rimmert (21:45):
Yeah. I don't know why, but you reminded me of a memory that pops up for me often, which is when I was really young, I remember my mom asking me kind of like a pop quiz. She said, Who's the most important person in your life? And I think I got it right, which is I said, Me. And she said, That's right. I struggle a lot with the word selfish because I think people have different connotations of it. Is it living for yourself or is it to the detriment of others? I'm not really sure, but I think everyone's naturally selfish. I think we're all our own stories, main character, and of course, we live in our own brains. We see everything from our own perspective. So how could it be any other way? But I just always remember that I kind of think my parents maybe accidentally raised a feminist.
(22:37):
Not that it's not feminist to have kids, but I think it's feminist to follow what you want. I think they would probably have preferred that I take a lot of the more default pathways in life, but they raised me to be independent and to think for myself.
Nandita Bajaj (22:55):
And now they're paying for it.
Lisa Rimmert (22:57):
Now they're paying for it. Yeah.
Nandita Bajaj (23:00):
Well, it sounds like at least you have a really nice relationship with them. So that has kind of stayed constant, which is always nice in these stories because it can go so many ways when it comes to this expectation. So tell me more about what set you on the path to become a comedian and what does that look like on a day-to-day basis?
Lisa Rimmert (23:22):
I think I come from a silly family. We were always laughing, always silly. When I think of my childhood, I think of a lot of laughter. So humor has always been important and a big part of my life. And when I was in my maybe late 20s, I took an improv class and then I went to an improv show and decided, Oh, maybe I should Google to see if I can do this. And so I did improv classes and then I ended up taking a standup comedy class from the same school and I was like, This is really where it's at because I get to be funny, but also myself. I don't have to play characters, which I'm not great at anyway. And I just would prefer to be myself if I can. So yeah, that's where it took off from there. And I've moved a number of times since then.
(24:12):
So it's kind of been fits and starts, but I've been doing it consistently for the past five years, I would say. And yeah, so I work at comedy clubs and bars and other venues around the country. There's busy seasons and not so busy seasons, but I'm usually doing something at least once a week, if not more than that. And I'm enjoying growing in my comedy and we'll just see where it leads.
Nandita Bajaj (24:38):
That's really cool. And given where you live right now, I have a sense that being childfree is not as common a path as one would imagine. Do you talk much about being childfree in your comedy?
Lisa Rimmert (24:51):
I do. I talk a lot about not having kids and how great it is. And I talk a lot about my animals. So I think you're right that it's very odd here. I live in a military town in Southwest Georgia and it is a different world because everyone has kids. People used to ask me, When will you have kids or do you have kids yet? And I used to get really mad at that word yet. Why does it have to be yet?
Nandita Bajaj (25:21):
Yeah.
Lisa Rimmert (25:23):
And now I think I seem old enough to where people think if she's going to do it, she would have already done it. So either they don't ask me or they'll ask me assuming I have kids, which is interesting, they'll say, Oh, where do your kids go to school? And I'm like, What kids? I don't... I was at the dentist and the hygienist said, Do you have kids? And I said, No. And she said, Aw. And I thought, okay, that's really strange to me, but it's again, to kind of relate it to veganism, which is another thing that I do that's like weird.
(26:00):
It's like when people are like, No hamburger? How? They haven't even imagined such a thing. And so they're like, No children? Oh, no. But yeah, so I'm surrounded currently by folks that mostly have kids. And when I find somebody else who doesn't, I glom onto them and they're my new best friend. But I think as far as audiences go for comedy, even parents know that it kind of stinks sometimes having kids. And so they laugh right along with me. I have a joke where I say that I don't have space for children because my house is full of joy, and parents are laughing the loudest. I can tell you that much.
Nandita Bajaj (26:40):
That's so good. And where can people find you and your work if they wanted to follow you or connect with you?
Lisa Rimmert (26:47):
I'm on Instagram. That's the main place I go because it's the least mean place on the internet, I think. And they can find me there at @LisaRimmy, R-I-M-M-Y, which is just a shortened version of my last name, which is Lisa Rimmert.
Nandita Bajaj (27:01):
That's awesome. Lisa, is there anything else you wanted to talk about before we wrap up?
Lisa Rimmert (27:07):
I would love to say, I think people probably got this already, but just as a very direct message to people who might be listening and maybe aren't sure if they want kids or aren't sure if they'll have them, it's okay to not want them and it's okay to not have a quote unquote good reason. It can be an emotion. It can be just like a lack of enthusiastic consent. It could be a lack of enthusiasm and that's all you need and you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.
Nandita Bajaj (27:38):
That's really an awesome message to leave people with. The reason for not wanting them is absolutely reason enough. And I'm so glad that you're role modeling that out there. I'm sure you're having a great impact even in speaking about not having kids in your comedy and opening pathways for people who live in relatively pronatalist places to be exposed to another option and to see that it's a joyful option. So thank you so much, Lisa, for joining me today. It was so fun talking to you.
Lisa Rimmert (28:11):
Thank you for having me and thank you, ditto, all of that because your podcast has made me feel less alone many times and I know it's doing that for other people. So thank you for sharing everyone's stories.
Nandita Bajaj (28:22):
Oh, thank you. It's my pleasure. That's all for this edition of Beyond Pronatalism. To share feedback about the show or a particular episode or to share your own story on the podcast, please get in touch with me using the link in the show notes. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate us on your favorite podcast platform and share it widely. We couldn't do this work without the support of listeners like you and hope that you will consider a one-time or a recurring donation. Thank you so much again for joining me today as we collectively discover and celebrate the many different pathways to fulfillment beyond pronatalism. This podcast is brought to you by Population Balance, the only nonprofit organization advancing the rights and wellbeing of people, animals, and the planet by confronting pronatalism and other harmful ideologies. This podcast is produced and hosted by me, Nandita Bajaj, with the support of my production team, Josh Wild and Alan Ware.