Lindsey Harrington | Nobody’s Mother
Growing up in rural, Catholic Newfoundland, Lindsey absorbed the expectation that motherhood was her destiny. Seeking external validation through relationships with men, she struggled to understand why traditional family life seemed to come so easily to others but eluded her. Writing her book, Nobody's Mother: A Childfree Memoir, saved her life and helped her discover that she was chasing a life she never actually desired. Now married and happily childfree, she hopes the book will help others navigate their own life path beyond pronatalist expectations.
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
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Lindsey Harrington (00:00):
I think what I wanted mostly in seeking that more traditional path was to belong. And when your sense of self-worth and value comes from being competent and being well-liked, then yeah, you start to wonder why can't I get this one thing that comes so easily to everybody else? And it's funny because I keep saying that I want to be a mother, but whenever I end up in any type of a maternal role, whether that is mothering a boyfriend or taking care of a baby bird that falls out of a tree, I end up getting very harried and resentful about the situation. I really do believe that writing Nobody's Mother saved my life, and I hope that it helps other people as they navigate this huge question in their lives.
Nandita Bajaj (01:05):
That was today's guest, Lindsey Harrington. Hi everyone, and thank you for joining me. My name is Nandita Bajaj, and I'm the host of Beyond Pronatalism: Finding Fulfillment With or Without Kids, an interview series in which through intimate conversations with people from diverse backgrounds, I explore how they are courageously and creatively navigating pronatalism - the often unspoken pressures to have children, whether from family, friends, or the culture at large. Each episode features a personal story born out of liberated and informed choice about redefining what family means, including being childfree or childless, having biological kids, adopting or fostering children or animals, or creating close-knit communities of friends and loved ones. Hi, and welcome to Beyond Pronatalism, Lindsey. I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today.
Lindsey Harrington (02:02):
Thanks for having me, Nandita.
Nandita Bajaj (02:03):
Yeah, it's really my pleasure. And today we're actually going to be speaking about your upcoming book called Nobody's Mother: A Childfree Memoir, which I really enjoyed and excited to unpack with you today. As I was reading the book, it read so much like a slow burn of how you were navigating this narrative of mandatory motherhood in your various relationships, some of which were dissatisfying and some of them were outright painful, and then finally arriving at a more liberated place. So in terms of introduction, can you say a few words about yourself and also the inspiration that you had to write this book?
Lindsey Harrington (02:56):
Yeah, so my name is Lindsey Harrington, and I'm a 40-year-old woman living in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, originally from Marystown, Newfoundland. And I'm a classic middle child and a classic midlife millennial, I think. I'm in the middle of my midlife crisis. And I wrote this book because I did struggle so much with not wanting to have children yet feeling like I should. And I really attributed that a lot to my upbringing and my history and my culture, and it made it very difficult for me and I just flip-flopped and questioned my instincts for so long.
Nandita Bajaj (03:41):
Yeah, that's very clear throughout the book, the deeply internalized nature of pronatalism and what it took for you to be able to strip that away and arrive at a more authentic decision. And I'd love to hear in a chronological way how pronatalism showed up in your life as you were growing up and then kept showing up again and again across various life experiences you were having. So let's start with the beginning. What was your upbringing like in Newfoundland and what kind of messages were you receiving both from family and the culture around you?
Lindsey Harrington (04:23):
Yeah, so Marystown is named after the Virgin Mary, and there is a giant statue of the Virgin Mary that they've put on the highest hill and they lighter up at night. So in terms of symbolism, I don't think you can get much better than that, that they want us to both be virginal and maternal and all of those sorts of things. I went to a Catholic school and partway through they decided that the school wasn't going to be religious anymore, but there was still a crucifix in each classroom and some of the teachers were nuns. So my grade four and my grade six teachers were nuns and they were seen as having sacrificed motherhood to serve the Lord. And yeah, the only other person I ever met who didn't have children was like my friend's aunt and she was seen as kind of a spinster to be pitied. She lived with her brother and really centered her niece who was my friend, because even if you didn't have kids, you were expected to center children.
Nandita Bajaj (05:36):
Right. And did you find that these messages were being reinforced at home within the family structure?
Lindsey Harrington (05:44):
Well, yeah, I think I grew up in a very traditional family and nobody ever told me that I had to have kids, but it was just a foregone conclusion. My mother and all of her sisters had children except for one sister who when I was growing up was struggling to have children and eventually did. So it was just the only reality I ever saw. And my family had a very traditional split of labor and I grew up playing with my dolly and marrying the neighbor and all those things that we do as children. So it was just really felt like a foregone conclusion.
Nandita Bajaj (06:23):
And I love that you talk about how you received a lot of praise for being cast as Virgin Mary in a play at school. So I guess that was also just an expectation that that was a goal to aspire to.
Lindsey Harrington (06:40):
Oh yeah. Well, everybody else was put to the back of the stage and I was center stage. And as a middle child, I just ate that up because I often felt like kind of in my older sister's shadow and that my baby brother, he was a male, which of course was also something that was very coveted. Everybody wanted a baby boy. So just feeling that way all the time at home, getting that external validation just felt so good to me. And I think I chased that external validation throughout my life without knowing it by constantly centering men in my life and trying to be attractive and picked by men.
Nandita Bajaj (07:23):
Yes. And what did that look like, that relationship with your own body, your own sense of self as you were getting older and learning about yourself?
Lindsey Harrington (07:34):
Yeah, and I honestly think I'm still untangling a lot of that relationship and how it's impacted me and my relationships and my sexuality because I was always looking for a partner because that was something I thought I needed. I was always chasing somebody or in a relationship with somebody, trying to keep them interested. Then when I fell out of love with them, I'd blame myself and I had this internal narrative in my head, just Jesus, Lindsey, what is wrong with you? I repeated that to myself so many times and thought that I was broken or damaged in some way. The fact that I couldn't find and keep a man, and I probably didn't help that both my siblings married people they dated in high school. So that played into that as well. But much earlier than that, I think I was struggling with these sorts of questions and wanting to be wanted.
Nandita Bajaj (08:33):
Sure. Yes. The wanting to be wanted I think is such a good way of putting the relationship that I think a lot of us, especially as female, have growing up. The only message that we receive is that our worth lies in someone else's gaze or someone else's approval of us rather than in our own confidence of ourselves. And I absolutely can relate to most of my teenage years, probably even my early 20s, being filled with anxiety because I didn't know who I was and I was always trying to be someone else. When I look back, I just think, thank goodness I am not in that space anymore. It just feels really uncomfortable and distant from a sense of self-knowledge. And then at what point do you start seeing or hearing messages that were different from the ones you'd grown up with, and what did that look like?
Lindsey Harrington (09:37):
I think I've always been a bit contrarian, and while I was always seeking approval through the male gaze and things like that, I still was highly intelligent as a child and questioned a lot of things, but still had this internalized issue. But it was really when I went to university and to a bigger city that I started seeing different ways of living and being and taking courses where you're questioning things a little bit more. So I think that's kind of when I started opening my eyes, but I'd already started on my life path by then. So I was like, Yeah, this is all true, but I'm still going to have that traditional life that I always imagined for myself. And I think I just assumed that's where everybody that I knew had gone, so why would I want something different? And it's funny because I keep saying that I want to be a mother, but whenever I end up in any type of a maternal role, whether that is mothering a boyfriend or taking care of a baby bird that falls out of a tree, I end up getting very harried and resentful about the situation.
(10:48):
So I think that was really what started turning the wheels for me. And I met somebody from Toronto who moved to rural Newfoundland, and she was childfree by choice and actually had her tubes tied when she was in her 20s. And that was really the first person that I ever met in the flesh who was like, No, I don't want kids. I want so many other things and it doesn't align with the life that I want.
Nandita Bajaj (11:14):
And what was your reaction to that? Did it challenge some of your own thinking around what you thought you wanted?
Lindsey Harrington (11:22):
It was kind of like, does eating fire in a traveling circus and hitchhiking to Mexico really make up for the essential human and female experience of giving birth and being a mother? And I think what I wanted mostly was to belong and to feel like I belonged. And I always felt a little bit like a black sheep, so this would be one more strike against me kind of thing. So I think in seeking that more traditional path, I wanted to be chosen and I wanted to belong to my family of origin and to my culture and to all that kind of stuff.
Nandita Bajaj (12:00):
Yes. And what were some of the relationships that you were in like? Did they fit the type of traditional role that you had wanted to be in?
Lindsey Harrington (12:11):
Yeah, I would say that I often took that kind of a role with a romantic partner in terms of play acting as a little housewife and making their dinner and organizing our social calendar and helping them succeed. Sometimes at the expense of my own life, I would be pouring into them and theirs. And I think it kind of showed me what kind of parent I would be potentially as well. I would bring those perfectionist helicopter tendencies to that role as well, and probably I would likely make a child and myself and my husband miserable. And that's kind of one of the narratives I grew up with as well, like the harried husband, his wife nags him and da, da, da, da, da.
Nandita Bajaj (13:02):
Yes. And there's one relationship you described that is a very needy relationship where you feel like you end up mothering this partner and you share this experience that you're having of, well, what would it feel like to have a child with him? Can you talk a bit more about the thought process of you beginning to question your role as a caregiver?
Lindsey Harrington (13:29):
Yeah, I think I've really truly loved that person, and we'd been in an on again, off again relationship for years, and I felt like it was my responsibility to pour everything in it to make it work. And if I couldn't make it work and build that kind of traditional life with him, that was my fault. So I tried and tried for years and I lost a lot of my spark. Usually I'm a pretty chipper person and a lot of that was really leeching out of me from this experience. And I decided that I was going to break up with him, and then the night that I had picked that I was going to break up with him, he's like, Oh, well we have kids soon. And I was like, About that, I'm not going to have any kids with you. But then afterwards, I went and stayed with my parents for a week while he moved out of my house because I owned the house that we were living in. So he was moving out and as I was back in Marystown, I was kind of thinking maybe it's bigger than not wanting that life with him. Maybe I don't want to be a mother at all.
Nandita Bajaj (14:43):
Do you think that's the first time you had that recognition?
Lindsey Harrington (14:46):
I do, yeah.
Nandita Bajaj (14:47):
And what did that feel like? Did you talk to anybody about it?
Lindsey Harrington (14:50):
No, I think that the idea blew my mind and it was another one of those things like, Jesus Lindsey, what's wrong with you maybe? And yeah, just needing to kind of process that on my own. And I think sometimes when really big things have happened to me in the past, I'm usually a very open person, but sometimes there are these things that are particularly close to my heart that I'll withhold while I ruminate. And I don't think I said it out loud until I was dating somebody else and was getting attached to them. And then I was like, I think I need to tell him that I don't think I want kids, because he was older and I was like, He probably wants kids yesterday, so I don't want to waste his time. And again, it wasn't about my time, it was about the impact it would have on him.
(15:37):
I was hemming and hawing a lot, I think. So I was like, Well, maybe it wasn't the wrong dream. Maybe it was the wrong man. Maybe this guy would be a more equal partner so I could have kids with him. And I wondered about that, and that really came to a head when I had what I called in the book, my 'maybe miscarriage', when I felt deep sadness. And I don't even know if I lost a child or not, but I kind of thought about the imagined future of this kid and what my life could have looked like and felt a deep sadness about that. So then I was like, Oh yeah, maybe I do. But then as I, again, fell out of love, I was like, I'm broken and this is just going to be a pattern I repeat forever.
Nandita Bajaj (16:21):
And there's been a lot that's been studied around feeling rules, as in what's supposed to make us feel happy and sad. And I wonder how much of that was playing out in your own life with things not working out with these people and the potential loss of a traditional family.
Lindsey Harrington (16:42):
Totally. And I think even when I was spending time with my nieces and nephews, and did I actually enjoy it or was I forcing it and laying it on thick in terms of really just trying to have that idealized experience that we're supposed to have?
Nandita Bajaj (17:01):
Yes, totally. And there's one point where you talk about a relationship where you are a potential stepparent to this child. What is that experience like to actually have a child in your life?
Lindsey Harrington (17:15):
Not good. So again, I just really tried to make it work and I was like, This relationship should be good on paper, so I'm going to give it my all to really contort myself into this family dynamic and bake the cookies and do whatever I'm supposed to do. But honestly, I just found it so emotionally and mentally draining every step of the way, just wanting it to work, but really not enjoying the actual reality of it. I think one of the things that really brought it to a head was just sleep and how much sleep I need. And the impact of having a kid who was a bit high needs as well, had a few things going on, I would say, and just the call and response at night and the getting up and all that stuff, it just made me the worst version of myself - short tempered, unhappy, and just not able to bring my best self to interactions, gritting my teeth and trying to get through things instead of being able to engage in something in a meaningful and not only joyful, but enriching way. Everything felt better without a child there, whether that be a walk in the woods or watching a movie, just I enjoyed everything more when there weren't children.
Nandita Bajaj (18:48):
Right. Did you enjoy this particular partner's company in the absence of the child?
Lindsey Harrington (18:54):
At times perhaps, but I think I just really wanted it to work. And being from an island and a small city, there weren't a lot of options out there. You'd go on the dating apps and you would see the same people all the time kind of thing, right? So you're like, Oh, I found somebody I'm attracted to and they've got a job, then what else could you want? I feel like I did not like it, and then I was in denial that I didn't like it and just really determined to make it work.
Nandita Bajaj (19:28):
That makes a lot of sense. And then how did things pan out from there?
Lindsey Harrington (19:34):
Well, from there, I moved away, broke up with that partner and moved somewhere new and tried to throw myself into my new life and build it up as quickly as possible, starting a new job, trying to find a romantic partner, trying to buy a house and trying to do everything everywhere all at once, because I felt like I was so behind that life path and where I was supposed to be. And living in my little brother's basement felt very humbling to me, I would say. I was so far behind what little overachiever high school Lindsey thought she would be by now.
Nandita Bajaj (20:13):
And how old are you at this point when you're living in your brother's place?
Lindsey Harrington (20:18):
That was about 10 years ago, so I was in my early 30s.
Nandita Bajaj (20:21):
And so things aren't working out, and partly you're putting this expectation for yourself that you're supposed to be meeting all these life targets. At any point, are you starting to become cynical about this whole construct that we are sold, that this is the pathway for every single one of us?
Lindsey Harrington (20:40):
Yeah. Well, I think at that point I was such a perpetual motion machine. I wasn't stopping to process and feel. I was just go, go, go, build, build, build, do, do, do. I don't know how many of those questioning thoughts I had, but I definitely by this point knew I didn't want to have children. But oddly, marriage became incredibly important to me because I thought it was some kind of proof that somebody chose me and that I wasn't broken or faulty and I was good the way I was.
Nandita Bajaj (21:18):
Well, you were not broken fully. Of course, you're a little bit broken for not wanting kids.
Lindsey Harrington (21:23):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Fair point.
Nandita Bajaj (21:25):
So that's interesting. Did you feel a sense of relief when you decided that you weren't going to have children? And was this a hard line that you drew going into other relationships?
Lindsey Harrington (21:41):
I though it was, but I bet I would've been pretty malleable if somebody said it was a deal breaker for them. I was just lucky that I met the right person who was kind of aligned on that, that it wasn't a big conversation with him. He's like, Yeah, no, that's not something I've ever wanted.
Nandita Bajaj (21:58):
Isn't that amazing, the malleability piece? Because that's something, again, I can totally relate to, is if I hadn't met my current partner who had that conversation with me and it was a different partner, I probably would have gone down that path because the question never even occurred to me. And I don't know what that life would've been like. And there's a part of me that believes it wouldn't have been the life that I wanted because the life that I have today is the life that I wanted, but I didn't even know it. So the malleability part I feel is the most unquestioned truth of our culture, the choiceless choice. We're told that we can do whatever we want in our life, but when it comes to these certain life choices, they're pretty set for us. Did you ever feel from other people as you were getting out of these relationships that made you question your own sense of confidence around walking away from these relationships?
Lindsey Harrington (23:04):
Yeah, big time. And I would say that it's interesting because I'm a very confident person in so many ways, and I get my sense of self-worth from being competent at my job and as a writer and as a performer, whatever I'm doing, I feel very comfortable of myself in these roles, but because of the cognitive dissonance between what I grew up believing and what I ended up choosing and becoming, that is one area where I didn't have a lot of confidence and it was very easy for people to be like, None of them are perfect. You're going to have to settle for somebody someday. That would be just enough to cause this inner spiral that I then couldn't control or built up so much momentum. So yeah, I think I was very malleable to those comments as well and very, very hard on myself. And when your sense of self-worth and value comes from being competent and being well liked, then yeah, you start to wonder why can't I get this one thing that comes so easily to everybody else?
Nandita Bajaj (24:19):
Yes, totally. And then in the background, you also got this preferential treatment happening with other family members who have kids and the attention they are getting. So there's this reinforcement of this message. They've got their life together and they're so happy and this is kind of where things should be, and why can't you get your act together? Can you say a bit about that, the family dynamic?
Lindsey Harrington (24:46):
Yeah, and nobody ever said that to me directly. I just said it to myself based on the feelings I had from the centering of the children, because my family, they just love kids and children are the center of every holiday, every event, every meal, everything is for the children, right? And I still find it funny if we have a family get together now, they don't want pictures of anybody else, just the children. They're like, We got to get all the kids together for a picture, but nobody needs any pictures of the adults. There needs to be no record of us because we don't matter because we're not children anymore. And it really made my middle child come out a lot, I think, that I'm like, Oh, but I still matter. What about me? And then I feel so childish and immature on top of feeling so terrible and like I needed my mommy.
(25:45):
When I lived in Newfoundland, I spent a lot of time one-on-one with my parents, and then when I moved to the mainland, that's not something that I expected or was prepared for that now I would always be sharing them with my siblings. So it was just a big shift in our relationship and something that I really mourned.
Nandita Bajaj (26:06):
Right. Another phenomenon that we don't talk about is the loss of relationships, especially family relationships that happen as a result of these choices that we make, which further stigmatizes this choice compared to the rest of the family that does fit the norm.
Lindsey Harrington (26:24):
Yeah, big time. I mean, I think if you ask most parents, their relationship with their parents became closer once they had children because you can say, Oh, I understand now, and I need guidance from you on this thing that you've done before. And you can kind of share in those first moments and the amazement of new life and stuff. So of course, not having that experience with your parent when another child does, your relationship is going to look a lot different, but it can be beautiful and you can make it something custom to you and what you need. And I also think it's fair that our parents were born and raised in pronatalist societies, and there's going to be a mourning period for them in not having that next generation to nurture and take care of and center.
Nandita Bajaj (27:19):
Yes. No, those are such important points to understand that these are not intentionally harmful decisions being made on anyone's part to prioritize the siblings' children over others, and yet it doesn't make it any easier on people like us who are making alternative choices that don't fit the norm. And so I'd love to hear about where things are at today, both with your current romantic relationship, but also your relationship with your family. Have you found ways of reconciling some of these differences?
Lindsey Harrington (28:00):
Yeah, I would say that I'm in a much healthier and happier mental place after having written the book and processed all of that stuff and kind of gaining an insight and understanding into not only myself, but the larger cultural phenomenon. And it's just talked about so much more these days, which has been really helpful to me. Before I was writing my book, I was looking for similar stories to help me process what I was feeling, and I felt like, has anybody even felt this before? And there was very little written about it, but now in the 10 years since I kind of started this journey, there's been so many more stories and so many more influencers and just people talking in this space that I wasn't able to find earlier. So I think that's been very helpful, and I've done a lot of work on myself and on my relationships, and I'm super proud of myself for coming out the other end healthier and happier with a romantic partnership that I feel secure in.
(29:07):
I'm not as close with my family as I used to be, but I feel like that's okay. I really beat myself up about it before and felt like I should want to spend more time with them and I need to do this and it has to be this way. And now I've got a lot less expectations and I also bring a lot less angst to the table. So it's a lot easier now, even if it isn't as close as it had once been.
Nandita Bajaj (29:34):
I'm really glad that you've come to that place of relative peace with that decision and that you're not placing the burden on yourself to have to fix something that you didn't break. You just made life choices that were aligned with your values and things have just fallen naturally where they would given those choices.
Lindsey Harrington (29:56):
Well, I really do believe that writing Nobody's Mother saved my life. And I hope that it helps other people as they navigate this huge question in their lives. Perhaps the biggest question we ever ask ourselves is whether to be or not to be a mother. And for me, no was the answer.
Nandita Bajaj (30:19):
Yes. So well said. I'm really appreciative of how candidly you've shared so much of your life in ways that I know will be so helpful and relatable to others. And thank you for writing your book, thank you for joining me, and also for exposing this really insidious force in our lives that prevents us all from choosing a life path that aligns with our best selves. Thank you so much.
Lindsey Harrington (30:49):
Thank you. And thank you for all the work that you and your organization do for this really important and near to my heart cause as well.
Nandita Bajaj (30:56):
Thank you. My pleasure. That's all for this edition of Beyond Pronatalism. To share feedback about the show or a particular episode or to share your own story on the podcast, please get in touch with me using the link in the show notes. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate us on your favorite podcast platform and share it widely. We couldn't do this work without the support of listeners like you and hope that you will consider a one-time or a recurring donation. Thank you so much again for joining me today as we collectively discover and celebrate the many different pathways to fulfillment beyond pronatalism. This podcast is brought to you by Population Balance, the only nonprofit organization advancing the rights and wellbeing of people, animals, and the planet by confronting pronatalism and other harmful ideologies. This podcast is produced and hosted by me, Nandita Bajaj, with the support of my production team, Josh Wild and Alan Ware.
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