Sonia and Aamer | A Conscious “One & Done” Choice

Parenting

Jun 17

Written By Population Balance

Originally from Pakistan and now based in Canada, Sonia and Aamer met as adults. They decided together that they wanted to become parents, but were also deeply concerned about the environment. After spending a few years carefully weighing their emotional and financial readiness, environmental values, and desire for parenthood, they chose to have one child. Right after the birth of their son, they knew that their family of five, including two rescue dogs, was complete.

Sonia (00:00):
We recognize it's a really big responsibility to be a parent. We also are really passionate about the environment, so that's a key reason that we didn't want to have two kids, but one. But I think societally there is a perception that a single kid might be lonely or strange or antisocial or some of these things which aren't supported by any data.
Aamer (00:24):
If we look at depth versus breadth, so in terms of having, let's say, one child, we feel that with limited time you're able to have more, deeper connection with your child and then it also allows you to show up a little bit, maybe perhaps more present in the child's life. Of course, the idea of what it means to have a full family, a lot of it is based on Hollywood movies, but once we had our child, almost instantly we knew that we didn't want anything more.
Nandita Bajaj (01:08):
Those were today's guests, Sonia and Aamer. Hi everyone, and thank you for joining me. My name is Nandita Bajaj and I'm the host of Beyond Pronatalism, Finding Fulfillment With or Without Kids, an interview series in which through intimate conversations with women and men from diverse backgrounds, I explore how they are courageously and creatively navigating pronatalism - the often unspoken pressures to have children, whether from family, friends, or the culture at large. In each episode, I dive into personal stories with people who are forging unconventional pathways to fulfillment, including redefining what family means to them, whether that means being childfree or childless, having biological kids, adopting or fostering children or animals, or creating close-knit communities of friends and loved ones. Hi Sonia. Hi Aamer. Welcome to the podcast. It is so nice to have you both joining me.
Sonia (02:06):
Thank you. It's so nice to be here.
Aamer (02:08):
Thank you Nandita.
Nandita Bajaj (02:09):
And my husband, Mike, and I and the two of you have been very good friends for many years, and this conversation that we're about to have is really the first time that I'll get to hear more deeply about your decision around having kids. And I think it's fascinating that we know so much about each other and that we haven't really had this particular conversation in a whole lot of depth before. So I'm very excited to get to know this side of your lives and also excited for our listeners to get to know your stories. So Sonia and Aamer, let's begin with a brief introduction to both of you. If you can each start by telling us a little bit about your upbringing, where you live now, anything that you think is relevant to this conversation.
Sonia (03:03):
Sure. I was born in Pakistan and I grew up near Dubai. And I moved to the US when I was 18 and then to Canada when I was 24 and I've been in Canada since. I met my husband, Aamer in my late twenties, and we got married soon after. We had a kid about six years after we got married and we continue to live in Toronto.
Aamer (03:32):
Yeah, and myself I was born and raised in Pakistan and grew up in a family of three kids and my parents, they decided to move to Canada when I was 17. I moved to Calgary with them and attended high school and university there. I've been in Toronto for over 20 years now, decided to take a job in Toronto after graduating. And yes, Sonia and I met about 10 years ago and we decided to have our son about six years ago and he's just over four now.
Nandita Bajaj (04:02):
Great. Thank you both so much for that. I'd love to hear more about from each of you what it was like growing up in Pakistan and what were the expectations around family, gender norms, things like that.
Sonia (04:18):
Sure. I think it's expected and assumed that when you grow up you're going to get married and you are going to have kids. My family did definitely expect that I would get married in my twenties and have kids right after getting married, and soon after we were married we were getting questions like, oh, so when are you having kids? Or how come you don't have kids yet? And sometimes people assume that there's fertility issues or something, that's why you're not having kids versus in my case at least, I was quite undecided about whether I wanted to have kids at all. To me, I was thinking, do I want no kid or one kid? That was always the decision, but there was definitely pressure like, oh, you've been married now multiple years, you still don't have a kid. So it was just something that was commonly noted.
Aamer (05:07):
Yeah, as for myself, things were a little bit different. As part of growing up I never necessarily felt any pressure to either follow a certain career path or any pressure to get married at a certain age or have kids at a certain age. So a lot of it basically was organic for me, but sometimes I've thought that it could be because of the gender norms as Sonia was saying. But one thing I do remember is that when we got married, Sonia was in her late twenties. I was in my early to approaching mid-thirties and I've spent most of my adult working life in Canada. So even from a North Aamerican cultural point of view, it was interesting that after we'd been married for a while, sometimes with colleagues, this discussion around children would come up and sometimes you would also get surprised looks or people hinting towards fertility issues. There was a sometimes not easier for people to relate to the fact that this is a decision that we're deciding to defer or maybe not our first priority right now with everything else that was going on and then just maybe needing even more time to make a thoughtful decision.
Nandita Bajaj (06:17):
Right. And for each of you, had you thought about the decision to have kids or not before you met one another, or is that something you thought, well, it's a decision I'm going to make when I have a partner?
Aamer (06:31):
Yeah, I think for me definitely it was one of those things that I had at the back of my mind that it would be once I meet the right partner, I think that was the first priority. And then once I do, then this is a discussion that we have together.
Sonia (06:45):
Yes, similar here. I think some people know early on that yes, I do want kids or I don't want kids, and then they want a partner who also has the same perspective because it's such a big decision. In our case, neither of us knew for certain whether we do or don't want to have kids, so it wasn't a factor prior to getting together. We were both sort of open. I think even if we didn't have a kid, we would still be happy and fulfilled. We both didn't view having a kid as a path to that, but as sort of something we were considering and weighing without being attached to the idea.
Nandita Bajaj (07:27):
And you took a number of years to make the decision. Can you share what the process of that decision- making was like? What were the kinds of conversations you were having?
Aamer (07:37):
One of the things, we both have an interest in the environment, and of course there's a lot of facts now that are available about population growth and the impact it would have. Just reading about that a lot and finding resources to make educated decisions. It was of course a rational decision, but also emotional decision to bring another life to the planet. So I think it was just because of the emotional commitment that we would need to love the child, and then it felt that it was the right way to go rather than being pushed into it or making that decision and not being emotionally ready. And of course, emotions are as important as financial stability, but that was also something at the back of our minds. And then there were also discussions around adopting versus biological. I think we were also at the point where we felt that even if it were an adopted child, we would love them equally. So I don't think that was ever an issue for us, but those were the types of discussions we were having.
Sonia (08:46):
We recognize it's a really big responsibility to be a parent. We also are really passionate about the environment, so that's a key reason that we didn't want to have two kids, but one. There's other reasons too, but that's why it was always a decision between zero and one. And we also knew that it's going to be a lot of time commitment and there's a lot of emotional energy involved in raising a kid. So we wanted to have certainty that we are mature enough and ready enough. And I guess the key reason for us was also that we liked the idea of raising a kid and watching them grow up, watching them learn and change and play and be goofy and those types of things. So it was many things we were thinking about.
Nandita Bajaj (09:36):
And so the decision to have just one child compared to having multiple children is also one that is still stigmatized in society. When you were making that decision, were you encountering some of those myths around having only children?
Aamer (09:56):
Yeah, so I think definitely there were certain things that came up. One thing is that after we had our child, the first couple of years are such an investment of time and energy, and we felt that there was no kind of space or time to think about that because we were fully devoted because when kids are so young, they need a lot of attention and love from their parents and the rest of the family. So I feel that the first couple of years, that question never popped up, but I do remember as we were deciding to have our child, that was something that was always at the back of the mind. And of course a lot of it is based on Hollywood movies, the idea of what it means to have a full family, but that was more of a theoretical thing. But once we had our child, almost instantly we knew that our family was complete. We just felt that this is exactly what we'd wanted and being able to provide him a lot of love and attention and just see him get older and develop is we didn't want anything more.
Sonia (11:05):
Yes, one thing that's underestimated in society is how very much work it is to have a kid. I mean, there's so much energy that one spends with a kid versus on other things like work or oneself. So to me, although I knew that having a kid would be work, but I guess at least on my side, I didn't realize how much of an investment it is. So that in addition to the environmental aspect, made me feel that second kid wouldn't really make that much sense for us. Also, in the current society when both spouses have jobs, so even the time with one kid, there isn't much time being dedicated to them. Like they're coming home at fiveish, their bedtime is at 7:30 or so. So there's just that little time and there's time in the morning. So then I find that if we were to have a second kid, then there's that limited window is getting split between two kids.
(12:04):
But I find that a lot of people say, well, you should have a second kid because each kid needs a sibling and it's not fair to your kid. Even random people at a grocery store will say, oh, especially when your kid gets to the age of about two or three, then people really say, well, when are you having your second kid? It's just funny. I was getting a haircut and I was talking to the hairdresser and he said, how old are your kids? I said, I have one, he's three. He was three at the time. And he said, well, you're probably going to have a second one soon. And I said, no, we're done. And then he paused the haircutting and he looked at me in the mirror. Even at a grocery store, the cashier, will see our kid and he or she will say, often men also say these comments that, okay, you're probably going to have a second kid soon.
(12:56):
And then people are kind of surprised when you say no. And they say, oh, well, that's not fair to this kid. The kid will be lonely. Studies suggest though that if you look at number of siblings, that doesn't indicate any person's happiness or success in life, if someone has zero siblings versus if they have one sibling or five siblings. That's not an indication of how their happiness or success will be as they get older. But I think societally there is a perception that a single kid might be lonely or strange or antisocial or some of these things which aren't supported by any data.
Aamer (13:37):
Right. One thing I wanted to also add was that if we look at human relationships, there's a thing to consider about depth versus breadth. So in terms of having, let's say one child, we feel that with limited time everyone has, you're able to have more, deeper connection with your child. And then it also allows you to show up a little bit maybe perhaps more present in the child's life. And of course, every family is different. Everyone has different dynamics, different level of resources, their emotional needs are different. But my experience has been that it's not necessarily about having more kids, but having a deeper connection with your children or your child. I think that's more important in terms of emotional connection with the child.
Nandita Bajaj (14:28):
I really love that - the quality of the connection versus the notion that more is better. And you also don't know what kind of sibling relationships the kids will have. Not everybody has healthy sibling relationships. Sometimes there's a lot of tension. So yeah. I like also that you said Sonya, there's a lot of myths around only children. And I wonder now that your son is four years old, what kinds of things have you been noticing compared to what you're reading about only children?
Sonia (15:04):
Well, I ask him, do you want a sibling? Do you want a baby brother or sister? And he always says no. But I think kids are getting a lot of social interaction in school. They're getting a social interaction from their parents, from grandparents. So it's not like they're solitary just at home with nobody for company, and they have friends, there's play dates. So I find that there's plenty of social interactions with young people of his own age as well as others. I don't think he's lonely or pining for a sibling at all. I think also in each household there's limited time, limited energy, and as soon as the second kid is born, the first kid is usually deprioritized to some extent. And that can be sometimes I think tough for them, at least for the first few years while the second kid is young. So I think there's pros and cons to both sides.
(16:01):
I will also say that in the past, 50-60 years ago, the fertility rate globally was much higher than now. It was about five kids per woman. And in those days, that could have made sense because the cost of having kids was much less. The cost of education and the expectations of parents were a lot less. Now parents are very involved. Studies suggest that now women, despite working full time, are spending more quality time than moms did decades ago, although many of those moms were not working at the time. So there's a lot of expectations of both parents now. Previously expectations were more of moms. Now the expectations to be a good parent are of both mom and dad. So with the higher expectations and with the higher cost of having kids and with the less time available to raise kids, I think the math really changes. But also previously, if everybody around you is having five kids and you're the one who has two kids, and people I would think would ask, well, why do you have two kids versus five kids? I think in the future, having zero or one kid will just become more and more common. And for I think many people are doing the same kind of math and thinking that we are.
Nandita Bajaj (17:15):
I agree. And that's been my experience too in studying about this is so much of the decline in fertility rates has been obviously due to the reasons you've mentioned, the quality of the time that you're spending with the kids. There's more demands on parents. It's financially more expensive to raise kids, but also people do have more autonomy and more choices compared to in the past where there would be so much pressure on women that having fewer or no children wasn't even an option. You would get ostracized or punished by family or society. And I also like what you're saying is the social norms really help drive people's behaviors. So as it becomes more and more normal for people to have fewer children or no children, more people then feel more free to make that choice for themselves. They don't have this pressure that they're going to be somehow different from everyone else. And you said you got some comments from your hairdresser and even people in the grocery store who somehow feel like they have the right to interfere or give you advice about something that's so personal. But did you ever get any comments or pressure from either of your parents or friends about why did you stop at one?
Sonia (18:39):
Yes. I think for some reason this is a topic that people feel is okay to advise others about, although they're not going to be the one raising the kid or anything like that. So it's such a personal decision. But yes, I think people just assume that there'll be a second kid. And sometimes people think that maybe there isn't a second kid because they're getting older. Maybe they're having fertility issues, but they're not saying it, but they want to have a second kid. They just can't have a second kid. So I think we definitely got comments, but we've been good about not internalizing them. And I think people, especially of a past generation, have a different view of what the perfect family is. And in our generation, that view has become a lot more open. There isn't a perfect family. Each family can look different and still be a very happy and good and functional family.
Aamer (19:33):
I agree. And I think the other thing is that there's just so many assumptions from a society that go unchallenged and some of our biggest decisions in life, and this is clearly one of the biggest decisions. When we hear about fiscal and stimulus packages, when we hear about the GDP growth assumptions and taxation and the future of a country, a lot of times there's a lot of assumptions based on this is what we need to grow the economy. But then there's the other side of the equation that do we have the resources right now to make sure that people that are around, will they have a good quality of life? So I think a lot of those assumptions, again, probably are not being challenged as we're making some of the biggest decisions.
Nandita Bajaj (20:20):
Yes, such a good point. The focus on quantity rather than quality and welfare and social wellbeing of everyone actually drives so much of it. So the question about it's like why is the government participating in this decision? Why are they pushing us to have children is also very eerie, that so many people have a vested interest in our reproductive decisions. Not to really support the people who are already here, but simply to increase fertility rates, increase the number of people that are here.
Sonia (21:00):
And globally, many governments have been doing that and it hasn't been working generally in creating a substantial increase in children like in Japan and Korea. The incentives haven't really resulted in more children. So countries are, I think, uncertain as to what to do. And some of the policymakers seem uncertain as to why people don't want to have more kids. But I think the current generation is a lot more aware of the fact that you don't need to have kids to have a really good life. And also people are more environmental now. They're more aware that we're all sharing one planet with limited resources, and if the planet gets even more overpopulated than it already is, then it's not going to be in anybody's best interest. Sometimes the policy makers are focusing on the economy first, but the economy is just part of the Earth, and so I think that side is sometimes missing.
Nandita Bajaj (21:59):
Totally. And so given that you've decided that you are one and done, where would you say you both are at with your life, with the family that you've created? And of course you also have two rescue dogs in your life, so you have a family of five. Can you each say a little bit about that?
Aamer (22:20):
Yeah, definitely. I think fulfillment is a good way to describe it. We're very happy with our decision and from the moment he was born, we just felt that this would make us really happy and we're dedicated to his growth with the time that we spend with him and to see him grow, that brings us a lot of joy and fulfillment. He loves the two dogs that we have as well, and just seeing him interact with them more and more and just developing a personality as well, it's really fulfilling to see that we've never felt the need that having another child would have an increase in our fulfillment. So we're really happy with the decision that we've made. One of our lessons is that, of course, this is one of the biggest decisions a couple can make, and it's been very helpful for us to have the space and time to make that decision.
Sonia (23:15):
Yes, I feel the same way. It's been working for us and we feel like we're in a good place now. Our kid is getting older. That's giving us back some more time to focus on other things as well that matter to us. And I think we are feeling like we're striking a good balance and in a good place as a family. I'll just add that for everyone who's thinking about whether they should have one kid or no kid or more kids to think about what they want versus what society wants, because these decisions are just so personal that making them for the wrong reasons is not fair to them or to kids that they may have, to really take the time to step aside from the societal noise and to think about what matters to them.
Nandita Bajaj (24:05):
Totally. So well said. Yeah, it's so nice to take that time and space that you have to make this decision so thoughtfully as you have. Sonia, Aamer, this was such a nice conversation. Thank you so much for deciding to share your story with me and with our listeners. We don't hear enough stories of people deciding to choose the path of one and done, and you've definitely given people so much to think about and helped to debunk so many myths around what it means to lead a fulfilling life. Thanks so much for joining me today.
Sonia (24:41):
Thanks, Nandita. It was so good talking to you. You make us feel so comfortable.
Aamer (24:46):
Thank you, Nandita.
Nandita Bajaj (24:46):
That's all for today's episode. Thank you so much for listening. What did you think of this episode? Do you have your own story you'd like to share? Check out the show notes to see how you can get in touch with me. Whether you'd like to share feedback about the show or a particular episode, or whether you'd like to join me on the show to share your own story, I'd love to hear from you. Thank you so much again for joining me today as we collectively discover and celebrate the many different pathways to fulfillment beyond pronatalism. Beyond Pronatalism is brought to you by Population Balance, the only nonprofit organization advancing ecological and reproductive justice by confronting pronatalism. This podcast is produced and hosted by me, Nandita Bajaj, with the support of my production team, Josh Wild and Alan Ware.